Ley compares the proposed IBR project with the Hood River-White Salmon Bridge replacement, arguing the cost difference raises serious questions for taxpayers.
Rep. John Ley recently joined The Lars Larson Show to discuss the latest concerns surrounding the Interstate Bridge Replacement project, commonly known as the IBR.
During the interview, Ley compared the proposed I-5 bridge replacement between Vancouver and Portland with the Hood River-White Salmon Bridge replacement project. While the Hood River project is estimated at a fraction of the cost, Ley argued that the IBR continues to grow in price while still failing to address key concerns about congestion, capacity, light rail, and responsible use of taxpayer dollars.
Ley also discussed federal funding questions, the potential Record of Decision, the cost of removing the existing bridges, and why he believes the current plan deserves much closer scrutiny before moving forward.
Watch or listen to the full interview.
Written Transcript
Transcript lightly cleaned for readability.
Lars Larson:
Hey, welcome back to The Lars Larson Show. You know, I’m happy if somebody proves me wrong. And I’ve been saying for the last couple of years that I think the Interstate Bridge project — that is, to replace the bridge that carries Interstate 5 over the Columbia River between Oregon and Washington — I have said that it is a dead project walking.
And I anticipate that the entire project is going to fall apart from lack of funding, from lack of legal authority, from a number of different ways. And yet the project seems to be just surging ahead, no matter what.
So I thought we’d get John Ley back on, who’s a Washington State Representative, District 18, Position 2. And he’s brought up an interesting comparison between the IBR bridge project, now at $15 to $18 billion in estimated costs, and they haven’t even begun to turn over the first shovel full of dirt yet, which means it may end up even higher than that. And I think John would agree with that.
But to compare it to a second Northwest bridge, a bridge that’s at least 30% longer than the Interstate Bridge, maybe not as wide, but it’s a longer bridge, and it costs about one tenth or one twelfth of the cost of the IBR, and that doesn’t make any sense.
John Ley, welcome back.
John Ley:
Hey Lars, happy 250th, my friend. It’s a wonderful week for our nation and happy to be on.
And you are so spot on on this entire boondoggle for the I-5 bridge. The Hood River Bridge is 4,400 feet long, and they’re estimating $1.12 billion at the moment, although I’ve heard rumors of it going up to $1.5 billion.
But for the last several years, I’ve pointed out the comparison where both states are doing two bridges, and that the Hood River Bridge is longer, and yet it’s going to be a fraction of the price of the IBR.
And it’s just one more reason that we need to kill the I-5 Interstate Bridge, regardless of the reality of the fiscal state of both Oregon and Washington.
And of course, you and I have talked about before, Oregon’s broke when it comes to transportation projects, and Washington’s only slightly better off, and both states need to use their money responsibly. And this project on the I-5 Interstate Bridge does not do that.
Lars Larson:
Now, the comparison you’ve made, even if it goes to $1.5 billion, with the minimum total bridge project at IBR at $15 billion, that’s 10 times the money, and that’s assuming that the IBR doesn’t go to $18 billion or $20 billion or some number north of that.
Because the IBR originally started out between, what, $3.5 and $5 billion, then it went to $7.5 billion, and now it may be $15 to $18 billion.
How is it that these two projects are relatively comparable? I mean, the Hood River-White Salmon Bridge is 4,400 feet long. It’s two lanes each way, correct?
John Ley:
Actually, the Hood River Bridge is one lane each way, but then there’s a lot of real estate allocated to bikes and pedestrians that could be, if they wanted to restripe it, done that way. But for the moment, it’s one lane each direction.
And I’d love to see it, for future growth, actually have two in each direction.
Lars Larson:
Okay, so why is it there’s such a dramatic difference, 10-to-1 difference between, at least, maybe 12-to-1 between the two projects?
John Ley:
Well, the easy answer is light rail.
On the I-5 Interstate Bridge project, they’re talking $3.5 billion of that $15 billion boondoggle is going to go for transit, which is overwhelmingly a 1.8-mile extension of light rail from Portland into Vancouver, number one.
Number two, there’s a ton of other pork barrel spending in the projects. A recent revelation from Joe Cortright in his public records request showed $320 million allocated to the Gresham TriMet light rail maintenance facility.
There are several hundred million dollars allocated for park-and-ride facilities for the city of Vancouver.
There are multiple other aspects of this project that just raise questions, none of which are important to the project.
An additional requirement, according to the IBR, that I don’t believe — but they told legislators earlier this month that they are required by the federal government to remove the current two bridges. That cost is estimated at $390 million.
That’s outrageous when you could simply repurpose those as a local connection from Vancouver to Hayden Island and use them for local traffic, and it would actually add capacity to the I-5 corridor. Coupled with that, you could eliminate a couple on and off ramps on what the IBR is designing and save even more money.
Lars Larson:
So why is this thing still moving forward?
I mean, they did get the Coast Guard approval, which I thought was going to be one of the linchpins, and it appears they have approval there.
I don’t understand why the Coast Guard agreed to do that, even though the bridge is far too low to meet the Coast Guard’s requirements.
Why is that happening, and why is the project still forging forward when they have just a tiny fraction of the money they need to build the thing? And they’re supposed to start construction when? Next year, or in the early part of ’28?
John Ley:
So it’s moving forward in part because of the politics of Oregon and Washington, where you’ve got most of the congressional people, members of the Democrat Party, who are pushing to get this light rail project in search of a bridge moving forward.
There’s a huge date coming up. According to Carly Francis at the IBR project, they’re expecting to get a federal Record of Decision on or about July 1, which would allow them to begin spending the federal money for the project.
But my hope is that DOT Secretary Duffy and his staff — I know they have questions about the project — can they delay issuing that Record of Decision? Can they call for an updated benefit-cost analysis, which is required?
They’re also required to give the federal government an updated financial plan. Well, the updated financial plan is short of money, as you said.
And so the IBR is not meeting those requirements required by the federal government.
So I certainly hope that the federal DOT is hitting a pause on this and taking a much closer look at this before allowing it to actually proceed.
Lars Larson:
Well, and in fact, you know that we’ve reached out to Secretary Duffy and his staff. We have been unable to get any of them to answer any questions, which makes me think the only reason they’re hiding is they don’t want to admit, “Yep, we’re going to go ahead and say yes to this thing.”
John Ley:
Well, and that’s certainly a possibility.
I, eternal optimist, keep sending information and reaching out to the administration, both the Trump administration as well as the Duffy staff.
And I’ve been informed that they have read several of my letters and it’s gotten their attention. How much attention, I don’t know.
But clearly, the dollars and cents don’t work. The fact that they’re replacing a three-lane bridge with another three-lane bridge doesn’t work.
The new plan to phase, quote unquote, the project in two halves, when they don’t even have the money for the first half—
Lars Larson:
No, none of that makes any sense.
That is Representative John Ley, represents District 18, Position 2.
John, thanks for that comparison: 10-to-1 between the Hood River Bridge and the IBR.
